On this episode of Victors in Grad School, host Christopher Lewis sits down with Shelly McFarlane, a criminal defense attorney who shares her journey from undergraduate studies at the University of Michigan Flint to law school at Western Michigan University Cooley Law School. Throughout the episode, Shelley reflects on the importance of flexibility and finding the right fit in graduate school, the challenges she faced transitioning from work to school, and the preparation needed for success. She discusses the decision to attend Cooley Law School, highlighting the school’s flexible scheduling options that allowed her to balance work and family responsibilities. Shelley also opens up about initially wanting to pursue a career in dentistry before discovering a passion for law, and how her background in premed has shaped her legal career. She emphasizes the significance of advocating for oneself, seeking help, and maintaining a balance between investing in oneself and taking risks. The episode delves into Shelley’s fulfilling work of helping people who have made bad choices and the impact it has had on her and her family. Listeners gain valuable insights and tips for navigating the challenges of graduate education, defining success, and following their passions. Don’t miss this inspiring conversation on Victors in Grad School.
This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you’re still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We’re here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here.
TRANSCRIPT
Christopher Lewis
Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in grad school. I’m your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint.
Really excited to have you back again this week, as we do every week. I love being able to sit down with you, to talk to you, to work with you as you walk through this path that you are on, to be able to explore graduate school. Whether you are just starting to think about it or you’re in graduate school yourself, there are things that you can do day in and day out to prepare yourself and to work toward finding success in the journey that you’re on. And that’s what this show is all about. I love being able to sit down and work with you every week and talk with you every week to bring people and ideas and thoughts and experiences to you that will help you to think about the journey that you are on because every person’s journey is just a little bit different. But you can learn something from everyone’s journey about what you can do to find that success for yourself and find that path for yourself that will lead you to the career goals that you have for yourself. I do that every week by bringing you someone new, someone to learn from.
This week we got another great guest. Shelley McFarland is with us and Shelley is a criminal defense attorney in Flint and she did her undergraduate work at the University of Michigan in Flint, but then went on from there and went to Western Michigan University Cooley Law School to get her graduate degree, her law degree to prepare herself for her legal career. Really excited to be able to have her here and to have her share some of her own experiences. Shelley, thanks so much or being here today.
Shelly McFarlane
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.
Christopher Lewis
I love being able to have different people here to share those experiences. And I think what I would love to do is I want to turn the clock back in time because I know for every person there is a point in time where you identify for yourself the path that you want to be on. And I guess as you think back and you go back to that point, might have been an undergrad, might have been after undergrad, what were the reasons that you chose to go to graduate school?
Shelly McFarlane
Well, thank you. There were a lot of moving parts and variables that got me to where I am today. Originally when I started undergrad, I wanted to be a dental hygienist and I thought from there thought, well, what else can I do? I wanted to help people, that was my ultimate goal. And through dental hygiene I could have. But then I thought well, I can make more of an impact if I’m the dentist. I can help in that capacity. So I switched gears a little bit and started working towards a bachelor’s degree at UVM Flint for pre dental. So I followed the premed program and I did biology, chemistry, communications, applied to dental school. I wanted to stay in Michigan, so I applied to University of Michigan and Detroit Mercy, and I did not get in. So I paused. I thought I did everything right. I did the pre dental club at UVM Flint. I volunteered. I worked at an office, and I couldn’t figure out what else I needed, so I got frustrated a little bit. But I live by everything happens for a reason. And that path ultimately steered me towards law school. I worked as a chemist for a local company in Flint for a couple of years. And as I was there, I looked further into law school and decided to sit for the LSAT and applied to one school I went to, like you had mentioned, western Michigan Cooley Law School. And that was kind of the route I took. I have a different background than most law students. There were a couple of people that said, what a waste of an education to go from premed to law. And it actually is not. It’s refreshing to not have the same background as every other attorney. A lot of the stuff that I use or learn for the premed route I use now when it comes to the chemical testing for blood alcohol, urine, all that stuff, I utilize, and it’s different. I stand out from other defense attorneys because most don’t have the premed background like I had. So I took a long, winding path to get here. But I truly believe I’m exactly where I am supposed to be. I’m helping people just like I wanted.
Christopher Lewis
I know you just were talking about the fact that you ended up at Western Michigan University Cooley Law School, and there’s a number of law schools not only in Michigan, but across the nation. Talk to me about the reason that you chose to attend Western Michigan University Cooley Law School and what you were looking for in a law school that led you to choosing Western Michigan Cooley Law School.
Shelly McFarlane
So my decision to go to Cooley actually was based on where I was at the time that I decided I wanted to go to law school. I wasn’t fresh out of undergrad. I had a couple of years had passed already where I was working, and I wanted to maintain my job. So I had spoke with my company and I said, I know I’m full time right now. I’m hoping that I could move down to part time so I could do both. I wanted to continue working while I was going to law school, and Cooley was the perfect fit. I was able to adjust my schedule for school whether I wanted to take morning, afternoon, night, weekend classes and continue to work in a career and also maintain my family. I was married and I had a stepson at the time. He was very young at the time, and I also knew that I wanted to have children of my own as well. So Cooley really fit perfectly into my needs and schedule, and it really was a perfect fit. I was able to continue working. Ultimately, I did end up leaving my job because I was fully invested in law school and convinced that I was going to continue. Part of the reason why I was hesitant was because I knew I wanted to take the leap. But it was such a big leap from already being in a career to basically switching fields. The premed, the chemistry biology portion, and then law school. They’re very, very different forms of learning. And I knew I wanted to go to law school, but there was a part of me that was still scared to make that leap. I’m glad that I did. I was able to do it all, and I was able to continue to invest in myself to get to where I am today. But there was a piece of me that was reserved at the beginning, and I wanted to make sure that I still had something to fall back on just in case I thought I made a mistake or made a bad choice. I didn’t. I was very, very pleased. Once I started, I was able to leave my company and then concentrate on school and my family. And Cooley was again the perfect fit to be able to maintain both schedules.
Christopher Lewis
It’s great to have flexibility and be able to find a way to incorporate it into the busy life that you have. Not every graduate school does that, so it’s nice to be able to find that and find what is the right fit for you in that regard. Now, throughout your experience, you did find success. You got through your law degree, you made it into the bar exam. You made it passed the bar exam. You’re in practice right now. Talk to me about what you had to do, especially in transitioning from work back into school, and even the transition from originally back in your undergrad and the way in which you had to study and had to prepare yourself in undergrad. Talk to me about what you had to do to be able to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your law school journey?
Shelly McFarlane
I have to be honest, it was a transition. The biology chemistry area, it’s just a different type of learning and studying than it is for law school. And my first year, it was difficult to transition because I was so technical and there was a right answer coming from undergrad. There was always an answer, a goal to work towards. And then when you get to law school? The answer was, well, who argued it better? Here’s the outline, here’s the law. And then you have to argue it to fit your facts. Well, again, it was different for me and a very different style of learning and studying. So the first year of law school, I think is difficult for everybody. But I did feel a little more pressure because I was coming from a different style. And again, I was able to overcome that and learn and adapt. And whether it’s approaching your counselor, approaching your professors, asking for help, you have to be able to advocate for yourself. Not just when you’re an undergrad or in law school, but even now, even today, you have to be able to ask for help and advocate in order to be able to continue to be successful. And I did that. My first year in law school, I made an appointment with a professor because I was struggling. I was struggling in how I needed to take exams because I was very long winded and I’d run out of time. And that to me, was my turning point. That’s where once I was not afraid to ask for help and direction and I was able to get pointed in the right direction and how I was supposed to form these answers to these exams, that was where I flourished. I was not afraid. And then I was able to follow the direction of my professor. And he wanted to help, he wanted to see me succeed, but he didn’t know I needed the help because I hadn’t asked. And that really was the turning point for me. It was tough once I got there and got that extra direction, again, I was able to apply it across every class and be able to answer the questions like I needed to. Now, again, very different backgrounds. But in order to continue to succeed in law school, I had to make sure that my schedules were also balanced. After my first year, I knew what was expected and I knew how much time was going to be put into studying. I was somebody that came from balancing three jobs. As soon as I turned 16, I was balancing three jobs. I’d never not had a job. I’d always worked very, very hard to make sure that I had everything that I needed. And being able to step away from my career in order to concentrate and focus and be all in for law school was scary. It was a risk. And again, I had to make sure that I wasn’t afraid to invest in myself. And I did that. And again, I was able to get through all of law school and be where I’m at today. Are there risks involved? Absolutely. But that’s going to happen no matter what. No matter where you are, no matter what your goals are. You don’t have to have it figured out from the very beginning. Again, when I was entering undergrad. I wanted to be a dental hygienist. And I tell that story to people often because my path was changed and I ended up exactly where I’m supposed to be. My goal was to help people and to have a family. And I’m able to do that from where I’m at today. So I wouldn’t have been able to do all of the stuff and be able to reach those goals if it wasn’t for, again, my undergrad at UVM Flint, and then also going through fully law school.
Christopher Lewis
I love what you put there because there’s a lot to unpack. And one of the things you talked about, I’m going to say the invisible assumptions that graduate school faculty and more make of new students, that there are unseen assumptions and expectations that are placed on every graduate student. And when you do step into that graduate school journey, you may not know what those are. So being willing to be an advocate for yourself is so important. That’s why I really love what you said, because you stepped forward and you may have been a little afraid at first, and I think that a lot of students would be afraid to step out and say, I don’t get it, this is really hard. But that you have to be willing to do that and put yourself out there and to ask for the help that you need when you need it, as faculty will help you, or they’ll point you in the right directions to where the help can be found, but you have to ask for it. Now, the things that I would love to hear from you is that now you are in your professional career. You’re out there, you’re helping people, as you said you wanted to be in that helping profession. And you are in a helping profession. You are a criminal defense attorney. You’re working with individuals. I love the tagline for your business where you say, sometimes good people make bad choices. That’s true. And they need help just like anybody else do. And I guess as you look at the career that you’re in, the work that you’re doing on a day to day basis, and you reflect back now on the training, on the graduate training and education that you receive, how did that prepare you for the work that you’re doing on a daily basis?
Shelly McFarlane
So part of what I do, again, helping people, that is because sometimes good people make bad choices. I have to explain that to my children because a lot of the times people will say, well, why would you want to help those kinds of people? And it turns into me defending my career choice often because I have to explain what I do on a daily basis. And there’s a lot of things that law school teaches you, but there are also a lot of things that it can’t and you will never learn in a school setting what type of impact you can have on individual people. A lot of the stuff that I do involves substance abuse. So drugs and alcohol and again, substance use. Substance abuse can affect so many people. Friends, family, strangers, all different types of people. And I’m able to get these clients the help that they need. You never know where you have substance abuse counseling. People don’t know where these things are located because it’s never going to happen to me. I was able to branch out and I go to these substance use and abuse centers. I go to residential facilities. I go out and meet these individual counselors. So when I have a client come to me and want to know what they can do to get help, in my mind, I’m already working towards the perfect match. I know exactly where I want to send them because I know this counselor and they’re going to be able to help this client. In particular, I will get messages and phone calls that will say, I’m celebrating my five year sober today. I wouldn’t have been here if it wasn’t for you. I probably wouldn’t still be alive if it wasn’t for your help and your direction. So having the legal issue, again, those are the things that we learn in law school. We learn how to deal with the legal stuff. But the day to day, the personable stuff, again, where I said you have to advocate for yourself, reaching out, those are things that, again, I did do in law school, but it wasn’t taught in law school. If you practice that and advocate for yourself, you’re going to be that much more confident when you’re advocating for somebody else. So when I pick up the phone and I call these facilities and I say, hey, I’m a defense attorney, this is what I do. I want to come check out your facility. You got to be okay to do that. And those, again, are things that you’re not going to learn from a school setting, but you learn the concept, you learn the idea and the communication portion of it, whether it’s undergrad or graduate school. So to be able to take all of that and tie it into a profession, again, there’s more than just the schooling portion of it. There’s so much more. And one thing, like I said, that you’re not going to get from a graduate program, they’re never going to be able to tell you what that impact feels like until you have that somebody pick up that phone and call you and tell you, hey, if it wasn’t for you, I wouldn’t be here. Thank you for helping me. You can have conversations. I speak at different events, really, across the state, but you never know who is listening, who in the audience. It’s impacting. Same thing as this podcast. You never know who you’re talking to. Most people have been affected by some sort of drug or alcohol use and abuse either they know somebody or they’re going through a struggle personally. You never know who’s on the other side. And by speaking about it and letting people know where they can go for help, again, it’s part of making a difference. And that was part of my goal, is helping people. So to take the education portion of it and then also the real life stuff, there’s a lot of real life stuff that you’re not going to learn in school. One thing that you can do is go out and volunteer. You’ll get a lot of that. I know the schools will talk about it and people will think about volunteering, but there’s a lot of stuff that you can get from there when you do the clinics, I was a part of one of the clinics in Lansing where we helped with estate planning. You got to meet the clients through the clinics and that gave me a taste of what it felt like to help people face to face. So again, you can learn some of that there. But in the profession, once you get out here, there is that tenfold. You will have so many more experiences once you’re practicing again, that school doesn’t necessarily prepare you for, but you could prepare for it again by advocating for yourself.
Christopher Lewis
Now in finishing up today. One of the things that I would love to know, and this is kind of again, reflecting back, thinking about the journey that you went on, what you had to learn along the way, and maybe things that you wish you had known before you had gone into law school and gone through that law school journey for yourself. Are there any tips that you might want to offer others as they’re considering graduate education that will help them define success?
Shelly McFarlane
Well, there’s so much, I mean, again, being able to be confident in your decision to follow a path or follow a dream, I know it is so scary. Whether you’re a high school graduate just beginning undergrad or if you’re going to graduate school, that entire decision making process is scary. And it’s like that for everybody. So I want everybody to know that those feelings are normal. Even if you come from a family of doctors or lawyers and you know that this is your path and you were born to be an attorney, you were born to be a doctor, you were born to be a teacher, whatever that path may be, it’s okay to change. And if I would not have felt okay to change, I would have stayed and became a dental hygienist and that would have been my start and my end. I was confident enough to take a risk and confident enough to invest in myself. And each little change started to become bigger and bigger and that’s how I ended up where I am today. And again, I can assure you this is exactly where I’m supposed to be. I thought I had a plan. And that plan continued to evolve. And I’m glad I allowed that to happen because there are so many lives that I’ve been able to impact from where I’m at today that I probably wouldn’t have been able to do had I not been courageous enough to make the change. So I think that’s probably the most important. Again, it’s okay to have a path or not have a path, but remember the change portion of it. That’s kind of the purpose of it all. As you go and you learn and you evolve, and you may end up in a different spot. And that’s okay. That’s okay. So have the confidence to be able to change and trust yourself, you’ll know, when it’s the perfect fit.
Christopher Lewis
Well, Shelly, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your own journey and for the work that you’re doing to help people in the Genesee County area. And I really appreciate your time today and I wish you all the best.
Shelly McFarlane
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Christopher Lewis
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master’s and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education, whether you’re looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flintgradoffice at umflint.edu.
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